By Christine Pangan
As attorneys, we are sometimes expected to be available 24/7 for our work or clients. What happens when you want to take time off for the birth of your child? San Diego Lawyer asked attorneys (and new parents) James Marvel (JM) and Cheryl Ramancionis (CR) about their recent experiences.
When and how much time did you take off?
JM: I took mine in August 2017 and I took nine weeks of paternity leave total.
CR: I took a year before James, August 2016 through November 2016, roughly four months.
JM: I guess technically it started the day after [my son] was born but I was actually in court when my wife was going into labor and she was traveling back from Vegas. I was in a trial hearing or something and I let opposing counsel know, hey my wife is in labor, she’s on her way back from Las Vegas. She’s said, “We’re continuing this case, get outta here.” [Everyone laughs]. So, that was pretty awesome.
What were your duties at work at the time you were taking leave?
JM: I had around 30 open cases at that point. I had already done case review with a couple of our lead attorneys to make sure there was a smooth transition of people covering work for me while I was out, done well in advance of that last day, and letting my clients know what was going on, keeping them informed that I was going to be out for a period of time. It seemed to go smoothly, at least no one complained to me.
CR: It was just a matter of wrapping up some open projects and then turning them over to my counterpart at that time to close them out. I certainly wasn’t taking on any big projects in July that were going to have to continue while I’d be out. So overall it was a fairly smooth transition.
What were your organizations’ respective leave policies?
JM: We get two weeks of paid family leave and then any other time you want to take off outside of that is through the State Disability [Family Leave] program, which can also be subsidized with any leave that you also have that you accrued. So that’s what I did, signed up on the State Disability website, supplemented that with leave I had accrued so I had a total of nine weeks.
CR: Through Sharp Corporate, you’re allowed to take up to six months leave. Whether it’s paid or not depends on how much vacation time you’ve accrued. Since I had started at the company less than a year ago, I didn’t have that luxury, so I only took the three months that I had under state disability and any PTO I had, but the rest was unpaid. But I know a lot of women in my office who took the whole six months, some who had been with the company a long time just saved up their days and when they went on maternity leave, they essentially had it paid for.
JM: Wow.
Did your partners or any other family members also take time off?
JM: My wife took a total of five weeks off post-birth. So I was home alone with our son for four weeks after she went back to work. But she also had a week off prior to his birth as well. At the time, my mom was working predominantly from home and we live next door to her, so I could walk over and she would watch him so I could take a nap or whatever the case may be, which was really, really helpful.
CR: Unfortunately for me, no. [Everyone laughs.] It was mainly me and my son. His dad had worked from home a handful of days, here and there, but nothing significant where I could say I had somebody there to help me. My mom flew out from the East Coast for a week in the beginning of October but my son was already about five weeks at that time, so essentially I did the hardest part, the first four to six weeks, mostly by myself.
JM: How was your sleeping at that point?
CR: I mean, I was nursing so I was really on my son’s schedule until I weaned him earlier this year, and until four to five months ago, he never slept through the night. At most, generously, I would get four hours. But usually two hours. I didn’t luck out with a kid that sleeps eight hours through the night. [Everyone laughs.]
Was taking time off more of a benefit or necessity for you?
JM: I view it as a necessity. Especially as my wife went back to work after only five weeks, I needed to be there. And even after I went back to work, I still felt that parental urge of why am I leaving my newborn baby at home with someone else, he’s only nine weeks old. I was still feeling that way probably for another month. And then you kind of get used to it, and Grandma was watching him a lot for us, which made it a lot easier. I viewed it as necessary and it was amazing. I wish it could have been a little bit longer but I was deeply appreciative of the time I did get to have off. And the sleep deprivation, it’s kind of fun to go through when you have a partner helping you. [Everyone laughs.] You know, when you’re not doing it alone.
CR: I would agree, I took it for necessity, and just not having my family close, which made it even more necessary that I be with my son. I wish I would have had the full six months, but fortunately for me when I did have to go back and he was only three months old, I was able to find friends and family who were able to watch him so I didn’t have to take him to day care. He was with people I knew and it just took a layer of worry off. I could be at work and do my thing and I didn’t have to be calling periodically throughout the day to check on my son, I knew he’d be fine.
Was your workplace supportive?
JM: At Legal Aid, it felt like every person was supportive, whether they were other co-workers who already had children themselves or were anticipating going on maternity leave, or even people who were single and don’t have children at all. Everyone was really excited for me and extremely helpful and supportive, from the top to the bottom of the organization, which was really refreshing because you hear stories about it not being like that.
CR: My company was supportive, again they do offer that six months that you can take to spend with your child. That definitely helps so there was never really an issue that I had to return back at a certain time. If I wanted to take the full six months, I could have.
Did either of you have any work guilt?
JM: I think going into it, I thought I would, but once I was actually on paternity leave, I didn’t. At all. Not a single bit. [Everyone laughs.]
CR: I think once I was on maternity leave, I just kind of left the office behind. I still knew what was going on, but it wasn’t worth getting worked up over things I couldn’t control and I wasn’t there. I just used the time to be with my son, because I was never going to get that time back.
How was your experience coming back?
CR: I don’t know how many women want to experience this but I was still nursing when I went back, and for me we had a “Milkgate” at work. There were a lot of moms who were nursing as well and some were supportive of each other and some who had to pump at a certain time. We had to have formal scheduling for the mom’s room, which was ridiculous so sometimes I would pump in the bathroom, empty conference room, you just do it. When you go back to work, especially for moms who do want to continue to nurse their children, just be prepared, because you don’t know what other types of people you’re going to encounter.
JM: I know my wife at times was nursing in the car when she would get to work early in the morning before she went in, and then she would basically blockade herself in the staff room because they didn’t have a designated room, barricade the door so people couldn’t walk in on her, and pump in there during the day. It seems like such a long time ago but I forget how urgent it felt at the time, like make sure the milk is refrigerated, make sure the milk is stored properly.
CR: Right!
Did you find taking leave in any way affected your career?
JM: Not in a negative way, no. I didn’t feel like or think that there were any negative repercussions for taking paternity leave, whether those were possible real negative consequences of getting fired or something like that as retaliation for taking paternity leave or having the perception that people thought less of me somehow because I did take paternity leave. In fact, I found it to be the opposite, that people were like, wow, that’s awesome.
CR: Coming back after four months, I felt that time had stood still for me. But then you get back to work and see that life has moved on and I was kind of in my bubble. Just organizational changes, hopefully at some point I can make up for that time. As much as we’d like to think time is stopping for us and we’re having a wonderful time with our children, businesses have to continue to function and move forward. Even though you are an employee, there’s always a chance that you’re never going to come back and they have to prepare for that as well. The reality is things do change when you’re out, just be prepared for organizational shifts when you get back. Do not take it personally and realize the time was well-spent. I think career-wise, that [time] can all be made up. That initial time after a child is born is something you’re not going to get back.
Final thoughts?
CR: Before becoming a parent, I never thought you’d get used to living in chaos but you do! It has really made me more organized at work because you just don’t have the time to waste. I have a limited number of brain cells functioning every day and you’re going to make sure those are working properly. In spite of the lack of sleep, that has been a plus because you really want to make the most of your time.
JM: I agree with that and before my son was born, I had a tendency to stay late at work or come in on the weekends and now it is much easier to leave the office at 5 o’clock and not go in on weekends unless I really have to.
CR: Good!
Christine Pangan is co-editor of San Diego Lawyer and a lead attorney at Legal Aid Society of San Diego.
James Marvel is a staff attorney with the Legal Aid Society of San Diego with the Shriver Housing Team.
Cheryl Ramancionis is a Commercial Compliance Coordinator for Sharp Health Plan.
This article was originally published in the Sep/Oct 2018 issue of San Diego Lawyer.